online store, message boards, mailing list, pictures, technical information, product directory ford truck information, svt lightning information, f150 information, f-150 information, f250 information
Home Discussion Forums Photo Gallery Product Directory Technical Articles Recalls & TSB's Product Reviews Classifieds Ford & Industry News Event Calendar Advertise with us
F150online Forums



Look for a USED Ford F150
Carsdirect.com

Go Back   F150online Forums > Powertrain & Mechanical > Exhaust & Intake Systems

Exhaust & Intake Systems SPONSORED BY:

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East TN
Vehicle: 2000 Ford F150
Posts: 186
Send a message via AIM to BigBlue5.4
Torque Numbers with 11" vs 14" Magnaflow

Considering straight piping creates horsepower/torque loss...would the 11" Magnaflow create less than the 14"?

Register today or sign-in to remove these ads!

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle: 2003 Ford F150
Posts: 1,878
Send a message via AIM to migdaddy
u post sooooo many new threads!
__________________
2003 F150 5.4. 20" Bazo B4 wheels wrapped in Nitto 420s. 3" Dynomax Bullet . K&N Intake. 2" rear drop shackles. 4:10 gears.



Bullet Start up/Rev
Bullet WOT
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Douglasville GA
Vehicle: 2006 Ford F150 XLT
Posts: 2,158
I don't know, let me fire up my dyno...... oh wait...
__________________

2006 Ford F150 XLT - 281ci V8 - Regular Cab/Flareside - 2WD
True Dual Magnapack Exhaust - Gott's CAI - Edge Evolution Programmer

Mustang Exhaust Exhaust Interior Drive By
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-04-2009, 09:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East TN
Vehicle: 2000 Ford F150
Posts: 186
Send a message via AIM to BigBlue5.4
Quote:
Originally Posted by migdaddy View Post
u post sooooo many new threads!
When an answer is needed and the search function doesn't pay off...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:41 AM
Technical Article Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wellsboro, P.A.
Vehicle: 2004 Ford F-150
Posts: 8,754
Send a message via AIM to DarrenWS6 Send a message via Yahoo to DarrenWS6
Magnaflows perform just as straights do, its a straight through design.. Straights dont really kill your power, having improper sized exhaust that changes alot and fluctuates velocity and not having a crossover ( X pipe to be precise ) affects performance.
__________________
2004 Ford F-150 XLT Supercab 5.4L 4x4

Appearance: Painted Headlamps/Fog lamps, 20% Tint
Performance: PHP Gryphon 87 Perf, 2.5" True Duals X piped, Rear Cats Deleted, Magnaflow 11" Bodies, Magnaflow 4x18 Rolled Tips.
Suspension: Bilstein 5100 Leveling Struts & Rear Shocks, 20x9 XD Monsters, 33x12.5 Toyo M/Ts
Videos: Start Up, Revs, Driving. Fly-By Sounds Burn Out Video Interior Sound/Drone Tunnel Carwash Rev
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-05-2009, 12:11 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East TN
Vehicle: 2000 Ford F150
Posts: 186
Send a message via AIM to BigBlue5.4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenWS6 View Post
Magnaflows perform just as straights do, its a straight through design.. Straights dont really kill your power, having improper sized exhaust that changes alot and fluctuates velocity and not having a crossover ( X pipe to be precise ) affects performance.
After watching your interior drone videos, you're about to sell me on those 11s Darren...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:04 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7
Here is a very well written article on the myths of Backpressure, etc. on Torque. Enjoy


Backpressure: The myth and why it's wrong.

I. Introduction
One of the most misunderstood concepts in exhaust theory is backpressure. People love to talk about backpressure on message boards with no real understanding of what it is and what its consequences are. I'm sure many of you have heard or read the phrase "Engines need backpressure" when discussing exhaust upgrades. That phrase is in fact completely inaccurate and a wholly misguided notion.

II. Some basic exhaust theory
Your exhaust system is designed to evacuate gases from the combustion chamber quickly and efficiently. Exhaust gases are not produced in a smooth stream; exhaust gases originate in pulses. A 4 cylinder motor will have 4 distinct pulses per complete engine cycle; a 6 cylinder has 6 pulses and so on. The more pulses that are produced, the more continuous the exhaust flow. Backpressure can be loosely defined as the resistance to positive flow - in this case, the resistance to positive flow of the exhaust stream.

III. Backpressure and velocity
Some people operate under the misguided notion that wider pipes are more effective at clearing the combustion chamber than narrower pipes. It's not hard to see how this misconception is appealing - wider pipes have the capability to flow more than narrower pipes. So if they have the ability to flow more, why isn't "wider is better" a good rule of thumb for exhaust upgrading? In a word - VELOCITY. I'm sure that all of you have at one time used a garden hose w/o a spray nozzle on it. If you let the water just run unrestricted out of the house it flows at a rather slow rate. However, if you take your finger and cover part of the opening, the water will flow out at a much, much faster rate.

The astute exhaust designer knows that you must balance flow capacity with velocity. You want the exhaust gases to exit the chamber and speed along at the highest velocity possible - you want a FAST exhaust stream. If you have two exhaust pulses of equal volume, one in a 2" pipe and one in a 3" pipe, the pulse in the 2" pipe will be traveling considerably FASTER than the pulse in the 3" pipe. While it is true that the narrower the pipe, the higher the velocity of the exiting gases, you want make sure the pipe is wide enough so that there is as little backpressure as possible while maintaining suitable exhaust gas velocity. Backpressure in it's most extreme form can lead to reversion of the exhaust stream - that is to say the exhaust flows backwards, which is not good. The trick is to have a pipe that that is as narrow as possible while having as close to zero backpressure as possible at the RPM range you want your power band to be located at. Exhaust pipe diameters are best suited to a particular RPM range. A smaller pipe diameter will produce higher exhaust velocities at a lower RPM but create unacceptably high amounts of backpressure at high rpm. Thus if your power band is located 2-3000 RPM you'd want a narrower pipe than if your power band is located at 8-9000RPM.

Many engineers try to work around the RPM specific nature of pipe diameters by using setups that are capable of creating a similar effect as a change in pipe diameter on the fly. The most advanced is Ferrari's which consists of two exhaust paths after the header - at low RPM only one path is open to maintain exhaust velocity, but as RPM climbs and exhaust volume increases, the second path is opened to curb backpressure - since there is greater exhaust volume there is no loss in flow velocity. BMW and Nissan use a simpler and less effective method - there is a single exhaust path to the muffler; the muffler has two paths; one path is closed at low RPM but both are open at high RPM.

IV. So how did this myth come to be?
I often wonder how the myth "Engines need backpressure" came to be. Mostly I believe it is a misunderstanding of what is going on with the exhaust stream as pipe diameters change. For instance, someone with a civic decides he's going to upgrade his exhaust with a 3" diameter piping. Once it's installed the owner notices that he seems to have lost a good bit of power throughout the power band. He makes the connections in the following manner: "My wider exhaust eliminated all backpressure but I lost power, therefore the motor must need some backpressure in order to make power." What he did not realize is that he killed off all his flow velocity by using such a ridiculously wide pipe. It would have been possible for him to achieve close to zero backpressure with a much narrower pipe - in that way he would not have lost all his flow velocity.

V. So why is exhaust velocity so important?
The faster an exhaust pulse moves, the better it can scavenge out all of the spent gasses during valve overlap. The guiding principles of exhaust pulse scavenging are a bit beyond the scope of this doc but the general idea is a fast moving pulse creates a low pressure area behind it. This low pressure area acts as a vacuum and draws along the air behind it. A similar example would be a vehicle traveling at a high rate of speed on a dusty road. There is a low pressure area immediately behind the moving vehicle - dust particles get sucked into this low pressure area causing it to collect on the back of the vehicle. This effect is most noticeable on vans and hatchbacks which tend to create large trailing low pressure areas - giving rise to the numerous "wash me please" messages written in the thickly collected dust on the rear door(s).
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SO CAL
Vehicle: 2003 Ford F150
Posts: 1,878
Send a message via AIM to migdaddy
$5 to someone who reads that whole thing.
__________________
2003 F150 5.4. 20" Bazo B4 wheels wrapped in Nitto 420s. 3" Dynomax Bullet . K&N Intake. 2" rear drop shackles. 4:10 gears.



Bullet Start up/Rev
Bullet WOT
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Douglasville GA
Vehicle: 2006 Ford F150 XLT
Posts: 2,158
Pay up homie!
__________________

2006 Ford F150 XLT - 281ci V8 - Regular Cab/Flareside - 2WD
True Dual Magnapack Exhaust - Gott's CAI - Edge Evolution Programmer

Mustang Exhaust Exhaust Interior Drive By
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East TN
Vehicle: 2000 Ford F150
Posts: 186
Send a message via AIM to BigBlue5.4
Talked to JR.

I can get a 2.25" True Dual X-Piped System with 11" polished Magnaflows for $398. That is always with Magnaflow 4x18 15* slashed tips. Unpolished would run about $370 for the system.

OR

I can get the same system with Borla Pro XS Mufflers for $427. These has a 14" case.

What do you guys think?
__________________
I will not be silent...Romans 1:16 ><>


2000 F150 Lariat 4x4
- 5.4L Triton V8
- 3.55LS
- Magnaflow High Flows
- 18" Magnaflow SIDO (dumped)
- AF1 CAI

Soon to come:

-2.25" X-Piped True Dual System with Borla ProXS Mufflers and 4"x12" SS Tips.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:44 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Bragg, NC
Vehicle: 2009 Ford F-150
Posts: 44
Judging by your signature, it looks like you already made up your mind.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-05-2009, 04:58 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Waco/Houston
Vehicle: 2004 Ford F150
Posts: 1,768
Send a message via AIM to FATHERFORD
Through some of my scientific test, the 14" magnaflow gained me 167ftlbs of torque to the ground over the 11" magnaflow. Now, the 11" magnaflow gained me an aditional 236hp to the wheels over the 14" in the higher RPMS(4k and up).

So take that for what it's worth.
__________________

The Saleen JDM'd 5.4 3v

Buy my vortech! - Link

http://www.f150online.com/galleries/....cfm?gnum=4708
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-05-2009, 08:10 PM
Technical Article Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wellsboro, P.A.
Vehicle: 2004 Ford F-150
Posts: 8,754
Send a message via AIM to DarrenWS6 Send a message via Yahoo to DarrenWS6
Either will sound good, the 11s may be a little pinch louder once broken in, but the ProXS is an excellent forever lasting choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by migdaddy View Post
$5 to someone who reads that whole thing.
I read it last year when he started posting it at times like this
__________________
2004 Ford F-150 XLT Supercab 5.4L 4x4

Appearance: Painted Headlamps/Fog lamps, 20% Tint
Performance: PHP Gryphon 87 Perf, 2.5" True Duals X piped, Rear Cats Deleted, Magnaflow 11" Bodies, Magnaflow 4x18 Rolled Tips.
Suspension: Bilstein 5100 Leveling Struts & Rear Shocks, 20x9 XD Monsters, 33x12.5 Toyo M/Ts
Videos: Start Up, Revs, Driving. Fly-By Sounds Burn Out Video Interior Sound/Drone Tunnel Carwash Rev

Last edited by DarrenWS6; 11-06-2009 at 01:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:23 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: East TN
Vehicle: 2000 Ford F150
Posts: 186
Send a message via AIM to BigBlue5.4
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenWS6 View Post
Either will sound good, the 11s may be a little pinch louder once broken in, but the ProXS is an excellent forever lasting choice.
So the ProXS's and the 11's are pretty close to the same in volume? I just don't want the Borlas to be too quiet.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:40 AM
Technical Article Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wellsboro, P.A.
Vehicle: 2004 Ford F-150
Posts: 8,754
Send a message via AIM to DarrenWS6 Send a message via Yahoo to DarrenWS6
I would say they would be near the same. Under throttle the Magnaflows might be a little louder, but the Borlas will have a better idle.
__________________
2004 Ford F-150 XLT Supercab 5.4L 4x4

Appearance: Painted Headlamps/Fog lamps, 20% Tint
Performance: PHP Gryphon 87 Perf, 2.5" True Duals X piped, Rear Cats Deleted, Magnaflow 11" Bodies, Magnaflow 4x18 Rolled Tips.
Suspension: Bilstein 5100 Leveling Struts & Rear Shocks, 20x9 XD Monsters, 33x12.5 Toyo M/Ts
Videos: Start Up, Revs, Driving. Fly-By Sounds Burn Out Video Interior Sound/Drone Tunnel Carwash Rev
Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
 
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
Contact Us Advertising Terms of Use Privacy Statement Jobs Forum Text Archives