Dead battery every other day ONLY in the winter
#1
12-19-2014, 10:08 AM
Dead battery every other day ONLY in the winter
I have been dealing with this issue every since the truck was new. The stealership has blamed it on the additional lights that I have put on the truck and them causing a draw. Well that's not the reason as they are wired correctly and it was just an excuse for them.
I have been blessed with the fun task of popping the hood and hooking up the jumper box every other or everyday during the months the temperature drops below 35 degrees F. Then dragging out the cord and hooking up the charger during the day to have it last another day or two.
So my question is what in the hell could be doing this. It has not happened ONCE during the summer months (which is why I rule out the lights or other accessories). ONLY in the cold, and I have noticed it typically below 35 degrees.
The truck drives no more or no less in the winter vs the summer. So take your best whack at it. I'm trading the truck in soon (hopefully) but I would really like to last through the winter and it's just a huge PITA to do this every freaking day.
I have been blessed with the fun task of popping the hood and hooking up the jumper box every other or everyday during the months the temperature drops below 35 degrees F. Then dragging out the cord and hooking up the charger during the day to have it last another day or two.
So my question is what in the hell could be doing this. It has not happened ONCE during the summer months (which is why I rule out the lights or other accessories). ONLY in the cold, and I have noticed it typically below 35 degrees.
The truck drives no more or no less in the winter vs the summer. So take your best whack at it. I'm trading the truck in soon (hopefully) but I would really like to last through the winter and it's just a huge PITA to do this every freaking day.
#2
12-19-2014, 10:31 AM
Dumb question time but have you tried disconnecting the add on lights to see if it fixes the issue?
Something almost has to be causing a draw or the battery is just very weak so it still does okay when warm but can't handle the cold weather any longer.
How old is the battery, brand? Cold can also cause issues due to parts contracting in the cold so you could have an issue with a draw that only occurs when the temps drop, I once had a late 70s Cadillac that if left outside below about 20 degrees the horn would go off in the middle of the night and it wouldn't go off until you disconnected the battery and got the car warmed back up.
-Steve
Something almost has to be causing a draw or the battery is just very weak so it still does okay when warm but can't handle the cold weather any longer.
How old is the battery, brand? Cold can also cause issues due to parts contracting in the cold so you could have an issue with a draw that only occurs when the temps drop, I once had a late 70s Cadillac that if left outside below about 20 degrees the horn would go off in the middle of the night and it wouldn't go off until you disconnected the battery and got the car warmed back up.
-Steve
Last edited by Tasca Ford Parts; 12-19-2014 at 10:34 AM.
#4
12-19-2014, 12:21 PM
I suspect a faulty battery too.
But, you could check for a constant draw on the battery when the truck when the truck is turned Off (Not running) and the key is Not in the ignition, if you used an Ammeter.
Getting it into the circuit is a bit tricky, since you don't want the battery to be disconnected to insert the Ammeter and you don't want to open doors which would give a false reading. Here's how I did it:
A normal "keep alive" draw (to the radio, clock, ECM, etc.) is in the neighborhood of 0.05A. My Gryphon programmer adds another 0.05A to this, so I see 0.1A. Anything higher than this would be suspect.
For your battery to die in two days, if it was healthy, the draw would have to be about 1.0A.
Hope this helps.
- Jack
But, you could check for a constant draw on the battery when the truck when the truck is turned Off (Not running) and the key is Not in the ignition, if you used an Ammeter.
Getting it into the circuit is a bit tricky, since you don't want the battery to be disconnected to insert the Ammeter and you don't want to open doors which would give a false reading. Here's how I did it:
1. Open the hood.
2. Obtain a jumper wire - you could use just one side of standard jumper cables. You simply need something to bridge the negative battery cable to the negative battery post.
3. Disconnect the negative battery cable - connect one end of the jumper wire to the cable and the other end to the battery post.
4. Go have a beer or watch a football game - you need to let things return to the "quiet state".
5. Set your Ammeter to its highest range (normally 10 Amps).
6. Connect the positive lead of your Ammeter to the negative battery cable and the negative lead to the battery post. At this point, both the jumper wire AND the Ammeter are bridging the gap. Turn the Ammeter on.
7. Now, CAREFULLY, disconnect the jumper wire from either the battery cable or the battery post, while leaving the Ammeter connected to the post and the cable. At this point, the Ammeter is the only thing that is bridging the gap and you should be able to read any drain on the battery.
The important part of this is to get the Ammeter into the circuit without activating any systems - which would happen if you opened a door or simply disconnected a battery cable and then reconnected through the Ammeter. Any interruption will cause a BIG draw for several minutes that could overload the Ammeter. The 10 Amp range will help protect against that and if it's a digital Ammeter, you should be able to read even a small draw.2. Obtain a jumper wire - you could use just one side of standard jumper cables. You simply need something to bridge the negative battery cable to the negative battery post.
3. Disconnect the negative battery cable - connect one end of the jumper wire to the cable and the other end to the battery post.
4. Go have a beer or watch a football game - you need to let things return to the "quiet state".
5. Set your Ammeter to its highest range (normally 10 Amps).
6. Connect the positive lead of your Ammeter to the negative battery cable and the negative lead to the battery post. At this point, both the jumper wire AND the Ammeter are bridging the gap. Turn the Ammeter on.
7. Now, CAREFULLY, disconnect the jumper wire from either the battery cable or the battery post, while leaving the Ammeter connected to the post and the cable. At this point, the Ammeter is the only thing that is bridging the gap and you should be able to read any drain on the battery.
A normal "keep alive" draw (to the radio, clock, ECM, etc.) is in the neighborhood of 0.05A. My Gryphon programmer adds another 0.05A to this, so I see 0.1A. Anything higher than this would be suspect.
For your battery to die in two days, if it was healthy, the draw would have to be about 1.0A.
Hope this helps.
- Jack
Last edited by JackandJanet; 12-19-2014 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Clarified per MGD's Suggestion
#5
12-19-2014, 12:26 PM
#6
12-19-2014, 12:30 PM
Sir Jack.
Would it be possible to change "when the truck is idle", to "when the truck is Off, Not running, and the key is Not in the ignition" ?
Upon a first quick read it looked to ol' myopic Bubba that the truck would be 'idling'. I'm sure it's just me, lol.
OP - after yer truck's in the state Sir Jack's procedure facilitates, and yer draw seems excessive, next step is to git yer ol' manual out and start pulling fuses to isolate circuits - beginning with any and all aftermarket stuff first.
G'luck!
MGD
Would it be possible to change "when the truck is idle", to "when the truck is Off, Not running, and the key is Not in the ignition" ?
Upon a first quick read it looked to ol' myopic Bubba that the truck would be 'idling'. I'm sure it's just me, lol.
OP - after yer truck's in the state Sir Jack's procedure facilitates, and yer draw seems excessive, next step is to git yer ol' manual out and start pulling fuses to isolate circuits - beginning with any and all aftermarket stuff first.
G'luck!
MGD
Last edited by MGDfan; 12-19-2014 at 12:39 PM.
#7
12-19-2014, 12:47 PM
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#9
12-19-2014, 01:10 PM
Even using the clamp on, you'd want to wait a while after turning your truck off, opening the hood, and closing all doors, before you take a reading. I'd actually wait a couple hours.
- Jack
Last edited by JackandJanet; 12-19-2014 at 01:12 PM.
#10
12-19-2014, 01:15 PM
Dumb question time but have you tried disconnecting the add on lights to see if it fixes the issue?
Something almost has to be causing a draw or the battery is just very weak so it still does okay when warm but can't handle the cold weather any longer.
How old is the battery, brand? Cold can also cause issues due to parts contracting in the cold so you could have an issue with a draw that only occurs when the temps drop, I once had a late 70s Cadillac that if left outside below about 20 degrees the horn would go off in the middle of the night and it wouldn't go off until you disconnected the battery and got the car warmed back up.
-Steve
Something almost has to be causing a draw or the battery is just very weak so it still does okay when warm but can't handle the cold weather any longer.
How old is the battery, brand? Cold can also cause issues due to parts contracting in the cold so you could have an issue with a draw that only occurs when the temps drop, I once had a late 70s Cadillac that if left outside below about 20 degrees the horn would go off in the middle of the night and it wouldn't go off until you disconnected the battery and got the car warmed back up.
-Steve
The battery itself has been replaced about 4 times with an interstate battery (guy kept giving me a new one under warranty). I doubt very much that it's the battery.
I suspect a faulty battery too.
But, you could check for a constant draw on the battery when the truck when the truck is turned Off (Not running) and the key is Not in the ignition, if you used an Ammeter.
Getting it into the circuit is a bit tricky, since you don't want the battery to be disconnected to insert the Ammeter and you don't want to open doors which would give a false reading. Here's how I did it:
A normal "keep alive" draw (to the radio, clock, ECM, etc.) is in the neighborhood of 0.05A. My Gryphon programmer adds another 0.05A to this, so I see 0.1A. Anything higher than this would be suspect.
For your battery to die in two days, if it was healthy, the draw would have to be about 1.0A.
Hope this helps.
- Jack
But, you could check for a constant draw on the battery when the truck when the truck is turned Off (Not running) and the key is Not in the ignition, if you used an Ammeter.
Getting it into the circuit is a bit tricky, since you don't want the battery to be disconnected to insert the Ammeter and you don't want to open doors which would give a false reading. Here's how I did it:
1. Open the hood.
2. Obtain a jumper wire - you could use just one side of standard jumper cables. You simply need something to bridge the negative battery cable to the negative battery post.
3. Disconnect the negative battery cable - connect one end of the jumper wire to the cable and the other end to the battery post.
4. Go have a beer or watch a football game - you need to let things return to the "quiet state".
5. Set your Ammeter to its highest range (normally 10 Amps).
6. Connect the positive lead of your Ammeter to the negative battery cable and the negative lead to the battery post. At this point, both the jumper wire AND the Ammeter are bridging the gap. Turn the Ammeter on.
7. Now, CAREFULLY, disconnect the jumper wire from either the battery cable or the battery post, while leaving the Ammeter connected to the post and the cable. At this point, the Ammeter is the only thing that is bridging the gap and you should be able to read any drain on the battery.
The important part of this is to get the Ammeter into the circuit without activating any systems - which would happen if you opened a door or simply disconnected a battery cable and then reconnected through the Ammeter. Any interruption will cause a BIG draw for several minutes that could overload the Ammeter. The 10 Amp range will help protect against that and if it's a digital Ammeter, you should be able to read even a small draw.2. Obtain a jumper wire - you could use just one side of standard jumper cables. You simply need something to bridge the negative battery cable to the negative battery post.
3. Disconnect the negative battery cable - connect one end of the jumper wire to the cable and the other end to the battery post.
4. Go have a beer or watch a football game - you need to let things return to the "quiet state".
5. Set your Ammeter to its highest range (normally 10 Amps).
6. Connect the positive lead of your Ammeter to the negative battery cable and the negative lead to the battery post. At this point, both the jumper wire AND the Ammeter are bridging the gap. Turn the Ammeter on.
7. Now, CAREFULLY, disconnect the jumper wire from either the battery cable or the battery post, while leaving the Ammeter connected to the post and the cable. At this point, the Ammeter is the only thing that is bridging the gap and you should be able to read any drain on the battery.
A normal "keep alive" draw (to the radio, clock, ECM, etc.) is in the neighborhood of 0.05A. My Gryphon programmer adds another 0.05A to this, so I see 0.1A. Anything higher than this would be suspect.
For your battery to die in two days, if it was healthy, the draw would have to be about 1.0A.
Hope this helps.
- Jack
Thank you for all the replies. I am just in awe how this only happens in the cold.
Unfortunately MGD is right and I might just have to pull all the circuits. While monitoring the draw. Wish it happened in the warmer temps so I could do it outside haha.
#11
12-19-2014, 01:42 PM
Since most things "shrink" when cold (but not water), it's possible, I guess, that dimensional changes are bringing some section of electrical circuitry that is not properly insulated into contact with some area connected to ground. This could cause a "minor", "high resistance" short that would drain the battery.
To confirm this, you'd need to do the Amp draw test both when the truck is still somewhat warm and then after it is cold-soaked. Again, through, the Amp draw test needs to be done after all the circuitry has entered the "sleep" mode, so wait at least an hour after driving for the first test.
As I recall, the Battery Saver Relay is supposed to open and disconnect any circuit that is accidentally left on (such as the interior lights) after a set period of time. Perhaps the cold is effecting it?
Regardless, you should still be able to find the offending circuit by pulling fuses, as MGD suggested.
Regarding the use of the Sears meter, it would probably work in the DC 40A range, but it may not be sensitive enough. It is rated at +/-3% at 400A AC, so if it has the same accuracy at 40A DC, it could have up to a 1.2A error (if the math I did in my head is right).
You have to be a little careful with clamp-on meters too. Many will not measure DC Amperage.
- Jack
To confirm this, you'd need to do the Amp draw test both when the truck is still somewhat warm and then after it is cold-soaked. Again, through, the Amp draw test needs to be done after all the circuitry has entered the "sleep" mode, so wait at least an hour after driving for the first test.
As I recall, the Battery Saver Relay is supposed to open and disconnect any circuit that is accidentally left on (such as the interior lights) after a set period of time. Perhaps the cold is effecting it?
Regardless, you should still be able to find the offending circuit by pulling fuses, as MGD suggested.
Regarding the use of the Sears meter, it would probably work in the DC 40A range, but it may not be sensitive enough. It is rated at +/-3% at 400A AC, so if it has the same accuracy at 40A DC, it could have up to a 1.2A error (if the math I did in my head is right).
You have to be a little careful with clamp-on meters too. Many will not measure DC Amperage.
- Jack
Last edited by JackandJanet; 12-19-2014 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Added Thoughts About Clamp-On Meters
#12
12-19-2014, 01:45 PM
#13
12-19-2014, 01:59 PM
#14
12-19-2014, 02:34 PM
Do you have any first hand knowledge of the accuracy of that meter measuring in the 10A DC range compared to a normal multimeter measuring in the 10A DC range?
Not knowing that has been another reason why I have not purchased a clamp-on meter. And, it seems to me that the thickness of insulation around a wire would have an effect, since it would move the probes closer or further out, effecting the measurement of the magnetic field around the wire. (At least that's how I think the meter works.)
- Jack