I have a 2005 Lariat SuperCrew and I'm trying to troubleshoot a problem that started this weekend. The rear driver's side power window will not roll up using that door's switch - it only goes down. Curiously the main switch on the driver's door will not roll it up or down. All the other windows & switches seem to work fine. Now, if one switch worked and the other didn't I would assume 'bad switch'. If it was both switches acting the same way I would assume 'bad motor/regulator'. The odds of both switches having different problems at the same time seem remote - that would be just too much of a coincidence.

My question: is there anything in the wiring of this system that would cause this set of symptoms upon failure? Maybe some sort of relay is the problem and not the switches?

Without more info I guess I will start by cleaning the contacts on the left rear door switch. If that works I will then move on to the switches in the driver's door. If this doesn't fix the problem, then it's on to the motor/regulator.

What an odd quality problem. Power window switches have been around for decades. It seems this kind of simple component should last a really long time.

 

The power to the rear window starts at the master switch, runs through the wiring loom and through the rear switch, before going to the motor itself.

A quick test on operation is to pull the door panel off the rear door, and test the motor using the 2 leads motor. Polarity one direction is up, reverse polarity is down.

If the window works fine with the power applied directly to motor, then it is time to check and clean both switches.

Carbon build up on either set of switches can cause this problem, as could both switches being bad. While it is not probable, it is possible that both switches have an issue.

Start with the direct motor test, then move on to cleaning and testing both switches.

 

Almost same thing for me as well. Back driver window will go down with driver switch but not up. Works fine with its own switch. Getting up the motivation to take apart and clean the switch...it may take awhile.

 

I'm also having a similar issue...it's a dual part issue.

My back right passenger window went down but failed on either switch to come back up. I swapped switches - no effect. I pulled the door apart and swapped motors - no effect. I tried to invert the polarity from the switch - no effect. I even took a separate battery and put power to it - no effect, other than a rapidly hot motor, battery and melted wires. However, once I put it all back together, beat and kicked on random objects, and gave one last try on the switch, it went up (after three days of troubleshooting, parts swapping and swearing).

Now, all three passenger windows are intermittently not working from the master switch, but all three will go up from their individual switches. The only oddball is that the back left will still work from the master, but does occassionally go out.

Ford printed me a wiring diagram from their computers, and said it's either an internal fault in the master switch (I don't think there was a dual fault with both front and rear master switches, but possible) or it's a bad ground somewhere in the circuit (more likely to affect everything simultaneously and randomly). I still haven't had the time to run out the ground yet, but maybe some of you have tried this? Might fix a couple of your problems. I'm going to check the ground first, but if that doesn't work I'll try to get the master switches from Ford if they don't cost a ton...

 

There is not a single ground to the motor, the ground is to the master switch, and in the neutral position, both sides of the motor have ground.
To operate the window, one side or the other of the window is switched to power.
Power can come from the Master switch, or the window circuit after the window lock out ( a switch from the accy delay circuit to the power to the other window switches )

Which switches did you swap ? If you only did left rear to right rear, you only have half of the switches tested. Most problems like this occur with Master ( driver's ) switch. This is where the circuit starts to blacken the contacts, until the carbon acts like an insulator.

If you swapped motors, and the window would not move, that to me says window regulator.
The track set has a problem ( melted wires ) as in it is stuck in one position.

If you pull the motor out, and run it not attached to the track, does it work correctly ?

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^^^ That's the same diagram I have.

Originally attempting to run the motor separate from the window assembly still didn't work, as the problem at that time was intermittant and only the right rear. I swapped left rear and right rear switches (just like you guessed) as they're identical, and no change. So I knew it wasn't the switch there, and was either the master at fault or somewhere in line on either power wires or the ground. That seemed to fix itself, or maybe had a part in the next problem...

Now the current problem (haha) is each window works on it's own switch either up or down, but both right windows won't go down with the master switch - they will go up though. So this leads me to think that the master switch is the culprit through either bad contacts like you've said or through a circuit issue somewhere in between the master and passenger switches.

I just hate that I have to go buy the assembly at the stealership - especially if it ends up not the issue and doesn't fix it, they probably won't let me return it like O'Reilly's will...

 

That is the reason I will not buy parts at a place that will take electrical parts back .
You never can tell if someone put it in, smoked it, and returned it.
All the while, changed "that" part, and the problem is still there.

Electrical parts return privileges does provided hours of entertainment in chasing your tail.

 

My switches were like that, so I replaced all of them causing problems. If I had the time or patience to clean them, I would have done that, but they were replaced under warranty.

 

I never install electrical parts without running them out with a multimeter - except electronics and non-simple circuits, etc.

I was looking at the drawing, and it looks like there is two lines for the ground. First one runs from the window lockout switch down the YE-LG wire to a junction S337. Second one runs from the master switch buttons and down the BK wire. I know that switch has nothing to do with it as they will work individually, but what I can't figure out is how the "Down Relay" comes into play. Looking at the diagram it looks like the BK57 ground is the culprit, but probably inside the master switches as it only effects certain circuits.

Tasca parts has it for a decent price so I'll get one from them and see if it fixes it.

 

except electronics and non-simple circuits, etc You mean like the Master window switch

The Yellow w/ Light green after the window lock out is the continuation of the Light Blue w/ Black wire, not ground.

Circuit 57 comes into the Master switch, and is what the LF, RF, LR, RR switches are connected to on both side in the "neutral" state.

So in the neutral position the Right Rear window switch has ground on both Yellow w/ Black & Red w/ Black. If the Master presses the switch, one of those 2 wires is switched to power ( Light Blue w/ Black circuit # 400 ) and the window moves ( the other wire is still ground ).
This is what I was saying, if the Master switch has carbon buildup on the contacts, it can cause another window to stop working. Pressing the button one way might switch the only working ground to power, and the other half of the window circuit is hanging in the open.

Picture of how bad the carbon build up can become on on of the switches, in one direction.


The down relay in the switch is for the Driver's side OTD down function, along with the block that is marked OTD electronics. Yes there is more than a switch and some LEDs in there.

Still a bit curious as to which wires you said melted.

 

Yes, the master switch is not as easy to ring out and check externally, but with patience and the wiring diagram you could do it. But I normally wouldn't do it, as with larger components it's easier to simply "remove and replace" and see if it fixes the problem. That's 99% of what gets done in the aviation maintenance field as well, and yes occasionally a good new component gets fried for no reason. Normally it should handle any power requirements the circuit can send it, so if that happens something is really messed up.

As far as the wires melting, it was some I had ran directly from an external power source (aka extra car battery) directly to the window motor. I swapped polarities trying to make it go up (I suspected the motor may have had a short on that side of the pole/dead spot on the windings. In a matter of milliseconds the 12 gauge wires heated and got really sticky, as the current draw was probably a little too much for the thin wires. I didn't put that shock to the vehicle's wiring, just the motor.

How difficult is it to split open the switch and clean the contacts? I may look at doing that first while I wait for the new one to come in.

 

And you're correct on the wiring circuits...in the pic it's hard to tell which wires "jump" over others or intersect inside the master switch, but after looking at it again I can see the two ground circuits and single power circuit for each switch in the master. It makes more sense that way too - especially since I had already knew that when I looked at the voltage at the switch with the multimeter (duh). Thanks for clearing that up.

 

And as far as the relay, I didn't know if it had anything to do with OTD as it has the "OTD Electronics" already labeled. Hence why I asked the question. Just was curious as to whether it played a direct part in the up/down circuits, OTD or something else.

 

Some "thin" 12 AWG wire almost melted ?

That is not minor, if a short run of 12 AWG insulation got sticky, that circuit was north of 40A in draw.

If you unplugged the pigtail from the harness to the switch, and used that, it should have worked.
If that test tried turning 12 AWG wire into a fusable link, there is something major wrong with the motor, or what it is attached to ( locked into place ).

If you remove the motor, can you push the window up manually ?

If you remove the motor, will it run without being attached to the window regulator in both directions ?

I would look to what is wrong with the motor or what it attached to, before yanking the switches apart to clean then ( not to say they are not carbon built contacts now ).

With the motor out, clip a meter to the ends of the leads, and use the switch. Test up and down direction at the factory side of the motor pigtail.

Take a look at the Technical Articles / How to Forum for a thread on repairing the window switch LEDs, there is info in there on taking the switch apart.

There is something serious wrong with insulation on 12 AWG wire getting sticky from trying to run a power window motor.

 

The motor works fine now at the passenger switch, but not the master (only up). It previously did neither. The motor never worked with it removed from the door, and yes I could raise the window manually without the motor hooked up to it (ended up blocking it up to keep the rain out for three days).

I had the motor out and tested it with a meter and the switch worked fine, had voltage either way you went. I did not test it with the master switch (arms aren't long enough when working by myself) but used the passenger switch, so I might do that too to verify indeed that the master switch is or isn't sending power through both circuits.

I still don't think that I'm understanding the "regulator" in this application. Are you referring to an electrical regulator (that cuts out power when it gets to the up/down limit) or a mechanical regulator (that physically limits the max up/down)? Another thread was talking about this similar problem and they mentioned the regulators, but one had manual windows and was showing his cable drive setup out of the door. If by regulator you mean the cable system and spool, then I get it. I was thinking an electrical regulator, which is why in both threads I've been out of the loop as far as that goes. I was going nuts looking for something hooked up to the motor and wire spool.

Also, if I remember right, it wasn't a 12AWG wire that I used but probably more like 14 or 16...but still it shouldn't have drawn that much amperage for such a small motor. It got hot quick to where you couldn't hold it.