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  #1  
Old 06-01-2006, 07:26 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6
Need technical advice on PATS/anti theft

I've been having a intermittent problem with a crank no start with theft light on symptom. It's not a key problem as it does it with both sets when problem arises. It will normally start after a couple short cranks when it happens, but not a comfortable feeling. I have a new PATS control module but don't know where it is hidden on this vehicle to replace it. All I could locate was the white keyless/antitheft module. I'll replace that if that is what controls the PATS area on this vehicle. I don't want to just throw money around either. I know there are some good brains around these forums, so I am open for ideas. Please help this crazy man if you can. Thanks in advance. Rob

Vehicle is:
2001 Expedition EB
5.4
65000 miles
bone stock
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  #2  
Old 06-02-2006, 08:26 AM
Technical Article Contributor
2006 Ford F-150
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Under the flightpath of ORD 22R
Vehicle: 2006 FORD F150
Posts: 10,240
One thing to check on the key ring..

Do you have another PATS key or a transponder ( like a mobil speed pass ) on the same ring ? Ford suggests not having other PATS keys or other transponders on the same ring, when starting a PATS enabled vehicle ( noted in the owners manual ).

If you are having the same problem, with just the key alone, I would think PATS reciever, not the PATS module itself.
The PATS module would need to be reprogrammed, so this is something that you are not going to be doing in your driveway ( need the dealer or a PATS locksmith to program the new keys ).

Have you tried testing the crank no start, with just the single key ?

When I had my Speed pass on the same ring, I would get a similar problem on occasion. I put this, and my hosue key on another ring. The starting that I learned to not have the symptom ( might not be the same as yours ) was to hold the ign key with my index finger and thumb, and hodl the RKE transmitter, and other key / speed pass in the palm of my hand with my pinky and ring fingers. Works 100% of the time on my '01, and now on my '06.

If you want to do a longer term test, just take off the PATS key, and use it by itself for a few days / weeks, to see if you have the same problem.

Last edited by SSCULLY; 06-02-2006 at 08:30 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-02-2006, 02:52 PM
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Thanks for the reply. The only thing on the key rings are the Ford remote and the Ford key, nothing else. Both keys give the same results (problem) with either keys. So I figured it would be the PATS receiver. I have the new receiver, but don't know where it is located to attempt to replace it. If I have to reprogram this thing after installation though, this is a dead end.

My local Ford dealer had the vehicle for three days and could not diagnose the problem because no codes were found and charged me $70 bucks for the trouble. My local dealer seems lost if they don't have a code to follow.

I have no hair left.
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  #4  
Old 06-02-2006, 04:02 PM
Technical Article Contributor
2006 Ford F-150
 
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Location: Under the flightpath of ORD 22R
Vehicle: 2006 FORD F150
Posts: 10,240
Oh, you do have the PATS rcvr, I thought you said I have a new PATS control module ( which I took to be the HEC in the instrument cluster ).

If you are getting the same reults, with either key alone, then I would think the PATS rcvr as well.

Once I get back in town ( unless someone else gets you an answer ) I will look up the R&R procedue for the PATS rcvr.
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2006, 06:59 PM
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Ok, I'm at home now and have the part in front of me. I thought a PATS control was the receiver. I learned something new. Thanks. I have the PATS control F6PF-19A366-AC. I do not have a listing for the receiver. If the receiver R&R does not require dealer tools, I'll get that if I can. If the dealer will sell it to me.

I don't have any reservations letting the dealer do the work, but they don't seem to be able to diagnose a problem without a code to look up in a book to help them out. I'm sure the service adviser is partially to blame too because I will relay all the symptoms and after reviewing the work order, it's pretty vague.

I hope with some help from you guys this problem can be solved.
Thanks so much in advance for your input.
Rob
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2006, 02:53 AM
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Location: mesa, az
Vehicle: 1992 Ford F-150 4x4
Posts: 22
pretty much anytime you change anything with the pats
system you will have to reprogram keys, here is the procedure for removing pats module, sorry pictures wouldn't show up, looks like if is on bottom of steering column, hope this helps



Module—Passive Anti-Theft Transceiver
Removal

CAUTION: Electronic modules are sensitive to electrical charges. If exposed to these charges, damage may result.

Disconnect the battery ground cable (14301).
Remove the ignition switch lock cylinder (11582).
Insert the ignition key into the ignition switch lock cylinder and turn to the RUN position.
Insert a punch in the access hole of the steering column and press the release tab while pushing out the ignition switch lock cylinder.

Unscrew and remove the tilt wheel handle and shank.

Remove the instrument panel steering column cover. For additional information, refer to Section 501-12.
NOTE: The steering wheel has been removed for clarity.

Remove the upper and lower steering column shrouds.
Remove the screws.
Remove the lower steering column shroud.
Remove the upper steering column shroud.

Remove the anti-theft transceiver module (15607).
Remove the screw from the bottom of the transceiver module.
NOTE: Only apply pressure or leverage below the key cylinder lower rib.

Disconnect the electrical connector and remove the module.

Installation

NOTE: When the battery is disconnected and reconnected, some abnormal drive symptoms may occur while the vehicle relearns its adaptive strategy. The vehicle may need to be driven 16 km (10 mi) or more to relearn the strategy.

To install, reverse the removal procedure.
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  #7  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:59 AM
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Thanks ford tech for the reply.I took apart the steering column shrouds, and located the transceiver module (15607). It it attaches to the lock cylinder assembly. Defiantly Not the part I have. The part I have (19A366) is about twice the size of a pack of cards. So, not the same beast. Tell me if I'm wrong, but logic tells me the transciever is matched to the keys, and if I replace the transciever, I will have no keys to match it and a dealer program will have to pair them. Or am I thinking too much into this?
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2006, 12:46 PM
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Vehicle: 2006 FORD F150
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I was under the undderstanding ( or mis understanding ) that the PATS Transceiver was just the antenna / painter to get the RFID info from the key to the PATS unit in the XXX ( HEC for your MY truck ).

Ford Tech will have to confirm this, as he might have done a few more then myself, I have done ZERO.

If it is up in the air, just find a PATS locksmith ( usually these are the ones tha thave truck fleets ) for when you replace it. If theya re a PATS locksmith, they can use something like the NGS PATS programmer ( about a 2,500.00 piece of gear ) to reprogram your keys if needed. I seem to recall at least 2 other PATS Transceiver swap outs by members here, and I don't recall for 100%, but I don't think they needed a reprogram.

The part you have, 100% YES a reprogram would be neeed.
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2006, 01:43 PM
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Thanks for the idea SSCULLY on the fleet locksmith. I'll check into that too. I am kind of like off the beaten path, so I have to see if I can bribe someone to show up.I work in an industrial park, so I'll ask around. As far as the transceiver goes, If that starts going bad, I would think I would get the symptoms I described with the crank no start with the theft light on. Hence it's not sending the signal. Or maybe the control not receiving the signal. Probably no way to know, just start replacing parts I guess. Any ideas are extremely helpful. Thanks
Rob
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:43 PM


 
 
 
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