A friendly word from the other side

lone_signal · #1 10-21-2004, 07:25 AM

As a sales manager, I just wanted to drop a few lines about the business for all you Ford loving consumers

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First: modern dealers are very regulated by the Federal and State governments, they can't just steal from you. Most dealers recognize that the consumer is very educated, from the internet and other sources, and do a very up-front and honest business. Don't just assume that everyone you talk to is trying to rip you off. You'll waste a lot of your own time, and miss good deals.

Second: No matter who you are or how much you know about the car business, never ever think that you know more than people who do it day in and day out every day every year. There's no way you'll ever know more, and claiming that you know about 'hidden' invoices and crazy dealer money from the sky will just make you sound foolish and waste a lot of time.

Third: The next time you ask for a vechicle at 'cost', or what the dealer 'paid for it', or some nonsense like that, stop and ask yourself why anyone would do business for free. Why would someone sell you a truck that they had to pay people to wash and move around, and make no money at all? What would be the point of doing business if you made no money? Also, think of how you would feel if a customer at your place of business demanded that you work the next day for no pay. Would you come to work, clock in, and get paid NOTHING because a customer thought you should?

Guys, just remember that it's 2004 and most things are what they appear to be. A very fair price for any new Ford would be $500 over invoice on normal vehicles, and $800 over on any commercially oriented vehicle (like superduty). That would be several thousand dollars below sticker price on most deals, and then you still have your rebates. If you would go to the dealership of your choice and offer that up front, you'd probably get a quick, friendly, no hassle deal everytime. It would be more than fair for you, and fair for the dealership as well. If they refuse that offer, then maybe they truly are one of the few that are trying to rip you off, and you should go elsewhere.

A good dealership will show you the invoice, show you the profit, and explain to you why they need to make it, and are deserving of it. It's against federal law to show a false invoice, so worry not about being deceived.

Don't forget: the sales person that helps you find the vehicle you want and fit it in your budget feeds his/her family and pays his/her bills by doing so. Don't be a mooch.

swampview · #2 10-21-2004, 04:09 PM

Good post . . . thanks for the information . . .

I have no knowledge of the business at all, but your post makes a great deal of sense.

Thanks again . . .

wuzzittoya · #3 10-27-2004, 10:40 PM

Hey! I just read your post. I know there's a cost of doing business, though I get amused when a dealer offers me one price at the middle of September and cuts several grand off of it in October!!!

I have a question for you - I got frustrated when the truck I wanted got sold b4 I could buy it, and went to a different dealer. I had been in the neighborhood at that dealer (both are towns I regularly go to) and decided to check out a Lariat, just to see whether or not an XLT was really what I wanted. That salesman has been the epitome of "professional salesman" - regular phone calls, when do you want to buy? what would you like differently, etc., etc., etc... I finally got to the point where he was so high pressure I quit answering my phone!

He sicced his p.r. manager on me at the same time as the truck I picked out was sold off the previous lot, and as luck would have it, they had a nearly identical truck on THEIR lot. I emailed her and told her my price for the truck. I lo-balled the offer, I'll be honest, taking it to invoice and then guestimating tow-n-go as well as the rebates available for me to pay cash. I was SHOCKED when she came back lower than my offer. I lo-balled with the sincere expectation that she'd come back $500 more and we'd both be happy.

Well.... the salesman calls me back and tells me they're removing the electronic security system from the truck that recognizes the key and disables the engine and that I can keep it on there for $199.00... I was pretty sure I remembered that the F150 came with SecuriLock standard, but didn't have everything in front of me, and told him to leave it there if they were going to take it off.

It comes standard. I'm really disturbed by this. I feel slightly misled and don't know if I should take it in stride, or take it as a warning sign.... what are your thoughts?

You can email me back if you'd rather... wuzzittoya@yahoo.com

Thanks!!!

lone_signal · #4 10-28-2004, 12:58 AM

That's crazy. The SecuriLock CAN'T be removed. Even if you wanted to take it off at an aftermarket shop you couldn't do it, short of replacing the entire brain. A good example is remote start systems. The SecuriLock system is so fool proof that you have to install a bypass module with a coded Ford key permanently plugged in to it to get remote start to work.

Here's what happened: The sales person quoted you the wrong price. The price they quoted you either didn't make enough money for the manager, or possibly even put them at a loss, most likely the latter. Mis-quotes happen, there's a lot of inventory to keep track of; but the professional thing to do would be to call you and come clean. "Mr. Customer I'm very sorry but I mistakenly sent you the wrong price." Even if you took your business elsewhere, they'd at least keep their integrity.

I wouldn't do business with that dealership. There's hundreds of Ford dealerships in the country trying very hard to reform the bad reputation that dealers have. It would be a disservice to them to buy from a con-artist like that.

Raoul · #5 10-28-2004, 01:15 AM

lone_signal, are you really a sales manager?

I ask because when I read your posts the font is the same size all the way through.

I never seen anything that was printed from a 'real' sales manager that didn't start off with a normal font and then get real tiny towards the bottom.

xtreme171 · #6 11-04-2004, 04:17 PM

Actually 500 over invoice is not such a good deal for the consumer. Lets not forget the 3% holdback. so if invoice is 30,000 on a new f150 and you pay 500 over invoice then the dealer makes 1500 on the vehicle.

wuzzittoya · #7 11-04-2004, 06:13 PM

Okay.... let's say that the dealer GROSSES $1500 on the vehicle....

Don't forget - he then has overhead expenses before he makes a profit - the upkeep on the building, the salaries of the staff, taxes...

At the same time, one dealership here prices all of their Fords at $50 over invoice - no negotation... They say they can live on it.

xtreme171 · #8 11-04-2004, 11:41 PM

Well most of the dealers here in Louisiana will sell under invoice to move the units. Remember the longer a vehicle sits on a lot the more it costs the dealer. Also dont ever ever think that new car sales keeps the dealers head above water. If it wasnt for the service department, Parts and used cars the dealer would never make it.

jojones · #9 11-11-2004, 09:27 AM

I've got killer deals before. Just because they know they will get money from the service department. I've bought 7 fords in four years and one dealer. Everything from an Excursion to a Tarus. Its not just the price of the car they can sell low at. You can also get free suff. Oil changes for life, tool box, bed liner a whole bunch of stuff.

Jub Jub · #10 12-01-2004, 09:11 AM

Great post and thanks for sharing that information. I have a question though. When is the best time of year to buy a new vehicle?

Dakota Offroade · #11 12-01-2004, 09:53 PM

I have to laugh when someone thinks that $1500 profit is a lot. Don't worry, the salesman is not getting all of that. I work at a heavy truck dealer, and if I only made $1500 on my trucks, I wouldn't have a job very long. When you figure in floor plan expense, repair costs on used equipment, and misc other charges that are thrown in, it isn't much. I was told today by my GM, that we spend over $5000 a month on advertisement. Now that may not seem like a lot, but we only have 2 salesman here. We average $30,000 GP a month. That is 10 to 15 trucks. Small percentage when you look at us selling a new truck for $100,000.

Just remember that we all don't make a lot of money, and the profit does not just go into our pockets. Very little does.

PittsburghSvt · #12 12-07-2004, 10:34 PM

I sell cars for a living.. let me tell you, there can be alot of money in it, but there can also be no money in it. Last month I had several deals that were below invoice, great for customer, bad for me... My goal isnt to sell my customer 1 car, its to sell them the rest of their cars, their friends cars, and the rest of their family cars. Most of the times, I sell myself, before even mentioning price.. that makes things a lot easier. Ive had people tell me even though my price was higher, they were still going to buy off of me.. Its not all about price. When i bought my Lightning, I actually paid about 450 more then i could of on the identical truck, but ya know what? The other salesman was a ****... For everybody that thinks "oh, im not paying 500 over invoice", which is a deal if your still gettting rebates . When you go to your local grocery store do you say, im not paying 1.99 a pound for these tomatoes, you only pay .79 sents, "Ill give ya 1.09... Think about it.....

J-150 · #13 12-09-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota Offroade
I have to laugh when someone thinks that $1500 profit is a lot. Don't worry, the salesman is not getting all of that. I work at a heavy truck dealer, and if I only made $1500 on my trucks, I wouldn't have a job very long. When you figure in floor plan expense, repair costs on used equipment, and misc other charges that are thrown in, it isn't much. I was told today by my GM, that we spend over $5000 a month on advertisement. Now that may not seem like a lot, but we only have 2 salesman here. We average $30,000 GP a month. That is 10 to 15 trucks. Small percentage when you look at us selling a new truck for $100,000.

Just remember that we all don't make a lot of money, and the profit does not just go into our pockets. Very little does.

lots of BS here

My GM told me....

firstly... what salaries when sales reps are commissioned? Repair costs on used equipment? That's called a business plan and is figured into what is the absolute lowest cost a dealer will sell for before they lose money.

$5000 on ads? Yeah, and half of that is co-op dollars back from Ford.

I don't believe the sob stories.

That and most of us know the real money is made in service, parts and used lot. The new cars just get us on the lot to sell us those other things.

ConcreteGuy · #14 12-09-2004, 09:05 PM

So if I get this right the trick is to just keep buying a new rig...

dzervit · #15 12-09-2004, 11:04 PM

I think it's funny how much people hate dealers and buying new cars... cracks me up. Go in knowing invoice price (not hard to find) and just ask the dealer "How much?". $500 over invoice is fair for both parties. If they don't make you a 'fair' offer in your mind, then counter. Repeat until your happy. If they won't do your price. Leave. Should take about 5 minutes. Simple. What's the issue?!

BTW - great post Lone-dude.