Mike, question on CPU and chip with DOHC
#1
05-26-2001, 05:39 PM
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Mike, question on CPU and chip with DOHC
I dont know if you or anyone has done this, but what happens if you "bolt in" the 32v DOHC?
How does the computer like it? Could you custom burn a chip to compensate if the stock CPU could not? How about with a 87 octane program? Heard of anyone doing this?
This would be on a 97 4.6 F150 with a 5 sp.
How does the computer like it? Could you custom burn a chip to compensate if the stock CPU could not? How about with a 87 octane program? Heard of anyone doing this?
This would be on a 97 4.6 F150 with a 5 sp.
#2
05-27-2001, 04:45 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Matt90GT,
Those types of "conversions" we've been involved with here at Performance have always involved using the complete DOHC wiring harness, sensors & ECU for proper operation, and that is what I would always recommend. The DOHC engines have aspects that must be controlled via the ECU that the SOHC versions do not, such as IMRC for the computer-controlled mutli-stage intake transition, etc. In your case, since you want to do it with a manual transmission (and you're *not* going to be able to use the standard Mazda truck transmission that you have now, it's not up to the task and won't be reliable), I'd suggest going with a 4.6 DOHC variant from a Mustang Cobra, and use it's manual tranny & clutch, etc., along with a custom length driveshaft, they're cheap to have fabricated, a few hundred bucks for a good steel 1-pc unit, which is what I'd use.
It just doesn't cost much more to "do it right", and not have to fight battles or disable aspects from control via ECU to make it work like that. That being said, I have no doubt that this has been done before by someone who used the same ECU, as just about anything is "do-able" given resources, knowledge & $$, that just wouldn't be my idea of how to go about it. Sure, we could probably pull enough strings to get it into the Superchips development facility and find a way to make it work, but that's just not the way to do it. I'd want the proper DOHC harness & ECU in place, all of which will come with any used DOHC motor from a recycler or junk yard, if that is the source for the DOHC motor for the swap out.
And no, I really wouldn't want to think seriously of doing an 87 octane program for a 32-valve DOHC application, that's completely contrary to making good power and decent driveability in those DOHC's. So while we *could* do it, we here at Performance would prefer not to tune those DOHC's like that, not with that type of engine. It was originally designed for use with 91+ octane, even on those extremely few versions where the owner's manual doesn't *require* 91, they still recommend it. Even the shaping of the combustion chamber in those DOHC heads has been designed with the slower burn rate of premium gasolines in mind, so for any number of reasons, I would not to do an 87 octane program for any of the DOHC engines. Their beautiful 6-bolt mains are Jaguar design, this engine has a great tradition, using those 6-bolt mains, fractured instead of sawn connecting rods to reduce torsional stresses & loads at ultra-high rpms (8000 rpm), it uses head studs instead of head bolts, I could go on and on about the features of these wonderful DOHC's. The point is, it's a race-bred engine that was designed with the ability to support extremely high rpms (for a streetable V-8 engine) from top end to bottom end as well as high power levels, and what you really want to do is to configure & tune it keeping in with it's original design character, in my humble opinion. At least, that's the way we treat them.
To correctly answer your question, sure, we could do an 87 & 92+ octane combo in a Flip Chip for that DOHC engine, that's the only way we might *potentially* be willing to supply an 87 octane program, but in all honesty, we'd probably still do everything in our power to try to talk you out of running it on 87 octane *ever*, if you called and asked us to do that for you.
Please don't misunderstand, I think this would be a neat project to do, and a very do-able and potentially enjoyable engine swap, and we'd love to tune it for you. I'd urge you to let us tune it as it really should be, only for 91 or higher octane. It will make quite a difference in it's basic driveability, throttle response, and gas mileage, all of those aspects will be much better on the 91+ octane type of tuning that engine was originally designed for, from injectors to oil pan, and we'd have to compromise a good bit of that to tune it for 87 octane use. Ultimately, it's up to you, it's your vehicle. All we can do is tell you what we think, then it's your decision.
What I'd really suggest first is, if this is a project you're really thinking of doing, give us a call and let's discuss this a bit before you take any steps, and then see how you feel about it all.
Neat idea for a drivetrain swap & instant injection of added performance, I'd love to see this happen!
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 05-27-2001).]
Those types of "conversions" we've been involved with here at Performance have always involved using the complete DOHC wiring harness, sensors & ECU for proper operation, and that is what I would always recommend. The DOHC engines have aspects that must be controlled via the ECU that the SOHC versions do not, such as IMRC for the computer-controlled mutli-stage intake transition, etc. In your case, since you want to do it with a manual transmission (and you're *not* going to be able to use the standard Mazda truck transmission that you have now, it's not up to the task and won't be reliable), I'd suggest going with a 4.6 DOHC variant from a Mustang Cobra, and use it's manual tranny & clutch, etc., along with a custom length driveshaft, they're cheap to have fabricated, a few hundred bucks for a good steel 1-pc unit, which is what I'd use.
It just doesn't cost much more to "do it right", and not have to fight battles or disable aspects from control via ECU to make it work like that. That being said, I have no doubt that this has been done before by someone who used the same ECU, as just about anything is "do-able" given resources, knowledge & $$, that just wouldn't be my idea of how to go about it. Sure, we could probably pull enough strings to get it into the Superchips development facility and find a way to make it work, but that's just not the way to do it. I'd want the proper DOHC harness & ECU in place, all of which will come with any used DOHC motor from a recycler or junk yard, if that is the source for the DOHC motor for the swap out.
And no, I really wouldn't want to think seriously of doing an 87 octane program for a 32-valve DOHC application, that's completely contrary to making good power and decent driveability in those DOHC's. So while we *could* do it, we here at Performance would prefer not to tune those DOHC's like that, not with that type of engine. It was originally designed for use with 91+ octane, even on those extremely few versions where the owner's manual doesn't *require* 91, they still recommend it. Even the shaping of the combustion chamber in those DOHC heads has been designed with the slower burn rate of premium gasolines in mind, so for any number of reasons, I would not to do an 87 octane program for any of the DOHC engines. Their beautiful 6-bolt mains are Jaguar design, this engine has a great tradition, using those 6-bolt mains, fractured instead of sawn connecting rods to reduce torsional stresses & loads at ultra-high rpms (8000 rpm), it uses head studs instead of head bolts, I could go on and on about the features of these wonderful DOHC's. The point is, it's a race-bred engine that was designed with the ability to support extremely high rpms (for a streetable V-8 engine) from top end to bottom end as well as high power levels, and what you really want to do is to configure & tune it keeping in with it's original design character, in my humble opinion. At least, that's the way we treat them.
To correctly answer your question, sure, we could do an 87 & 92+ octane combo in a Flip Chip for that DOHC engine, that's the only way we might *potentially* be willing to supply an 87 octane program, but in all honesty, we'd probably still do everything in our power to try to talk you out of running it on 87 octane *ever*, if you called and asked us to do that for you.
Please don't misunderstand, I think this would be a neat project to do, and a very do-able and potentially enjoyable engine swap, and we'd love to tune it for you. I'd urge you to let us tune it as it really should be, only for 91 or higher octane. It will make quite a difference in it's basic driveability, throttle response, and gas mileage, all of those aspects will be much better on the 91+ octane type of tuning that engine was originally designed for, from injectors to oil pan, and we'd have to compromise a good bit of that to tune it for 87 octane use. Ultimately, it's up to you, it's your vehicle. All we can do is tell you what we think, then it's your decision.
What I'd really suggest first is, if this is a project you're really thinking of doing, give us a call and let's discuss this a bit before you take any steps, and then see how you feel about it all.
Neat idea for a drivetrain swap & instant injection of added performance, I'd love to see this happen!
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 05-27-2001).]
#3
05-27-2001, 05:35 PM
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#4
05-29-2001, 08:28 PM
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Matt90GT,
I remember reading about a project similar to what you describe somewhere in cyberspace (and not this site), although it was for a 5.4 and it turned out to be a really involved project, much more than what he expected. Just wish I could remember the name of the site for you...Search on something like "Project DOHC 5.4". Good Luck. Let us know what you decide!!
GDG
------------------
Stock Package: 2001 SuperCrew XLT, Silver, 5.4L, 4x4, 3.55 LS, Tow Package, 265x70x17, Sliding Rear Window,
Modifications: Tuff Spray-on Liner, JBA Headers Jet Black Coated, Ravin Z55 SI/DO Sideswept Catback, K&N FIPK with fabricated cold-air box and ram-air, SuperChip, ASP Pullies, 1" Thick Sheepskin seat covers (nice "seat-of-the-pants" feel!), Nerf Bars, PIAA Superwhites, 65W (9006) Fog Lights, Dual 14" Perma-Cool Fans w/ stock shroud, Baumann Shift Kit on Stage 4 with Sonnex Bypass Clutch control Valve, Pillar mounted Autometer Ultra-Lite Water and Tranny Temperature Gages, Amsoil front to back, TPS Mod to 0.997
Future mods - Roots Supercharger, modified sterio system
I remember reading about a project similar to what you describe somewhere in cyberspace (and not this site), although it was for a 5.4 and it turned out to be a really involved project, much more than what he expected. Just wish I could remember the name of the site for you...Search on something like "Project DOHC 5.4". Good Luck. Let us know what you decide!!
GDG
------------------
Stock Package: 2001 SuperCrew XLT, Silver, 5.4L, 4x4, 3.55 LS, Tow Package, 265x70x17, Sliding Rear Window,
Modifications: Tuff Spray-on Liner, JBA Headers Jet Black Coated, Ravin Z55 SI/DO Sideswept Catback, K&N FIPK with fabricated cold-air box and ram-air, SuperChip, ASP Pullies, 1" Thick Sheepskin seat covers (nice "seat-of-the-pants" feel!), Nerf Bars, PIAA Superwhites, 65W (9006) Fog Lights, Dual 14" Perma-Cool Fans w/ stock shroud, Baumann Shift Kit on Stage 4 with Sonnex Bypass Clutch control Valve, Pillar mounted Autometer Ultra-Lite Water and Tranny Temperature Gages, Amsoil front to back, TPS Mod to 0.997
Future mods - Roots Supercharger, modified sterio system
#6
05-30-2001, 02:07 PM
Former Sponsor
Hi Matt,
Wow, at that kind of price, that would be hard to pass up!
What's the deal on this, if you can say? Just curious why DOHC motors would be available at that kind of price, obviously we're talking used engine's, right? Thanks in advance for any info you might be able to share with us.........
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Wow, at that kind of price, that would be hard to pass up!
What's the deal on this, if you can say? Just curious why DOHC motors would be available at that kind of price, obviously we're talking used engine's, right? Thanks in advance for any info you might be able to share with us.........
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
#7
05-30-2001, 04:17 PM
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I just saw one the other day on Ebay also.
Basically they are motors that have broken bottom ends. Like rods and pistons. usually from owner abuse, like say driving into puddles.
So the heads and intakes and blocks are great. The rest may be an issue. They are usually Lincoln motors also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...472457&r=0&t=0
That is the ebay item! $250!
This is a little more, but MPS has a burn motor:
http://www.stangparts.com/home.cfm?s...ducts/specials
Also KarKraft has new engines for good prices!
If you look around, you can surely find them!
matt
Basically they are motors that have broken bottom ends. Like rods and pistons. usually from owner abuse, like say driving into puddles.
So the heads and intakes and blocks are great. The rest may be an issue. They are usually Lincoln motors also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...472457&r=0&t=0
That is the ebay item! $250!
This is a little more, but MPS has a burn motor:
http://www.stangparts.com/home.cfm?s...ducts/specials
Also KarKraft has new engines for good prices!
If you look around, you can surely find them!
matt