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  #1  
Old 11-02-2003, 04:10 PM
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HyperTech vs. Superchip

Any opinions on HyperTech over Superchip? I had a Superchip "dialed in" for my truck a couple of years ago - not bad - not great - just not bad.
I see HyperTech has a tuner which plugs into the existing OBD and can be tuned to run on the different octanes (Superchip forces you to use the high-octane).
Anyone compared these two mods and have an opinion to offer?

thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2003, 06:50 PM
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I have a Superchips Micro Tuner and no one's forcing me to run high octane. My tuner has three programs. 87 tow, 91 tow, and high performance. I'm running the 91 tow and I'm very pleased.
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2003, 04:50 PM
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Hi zorjax,

You're dealing with some outdated information - as of just this past September 15th, the Superchips Micro Tuner has programs for 87 octane as well as for premium gas (3 different tunes), so that's a fairly recent development. Prior to that, you're absolutely right, the Micro Tuner *used* to require the use of premium gas only.

It's still true that the *real* power gain comes on the premium gas tuning - that will always be the case, as there just isn't significant room for improvement in raw power on 87 octane - we see about 8 hp more on the Superchips tuning for 87 octane, to give you an idea, as compared to 25+ HP on the "max" performance tune for premium gas.

Just as a bit of perspective to share with you in general about this, optimizing the powertrain program is the single best bang for the buck performance enhancement for these vehicles, as nothing else for the same or less cost will improve performance as much. However, you're not going to get what I call a "big" power gain or a "big" seat of the pants difference in a 2.5-3 ton vehicle with a normally aspirated gasoline engine by tuning alone. No modification for a coupla-few hundred bucks is going to give a "big" seat of the pants gain in these gasoline engine trucks, the Superchips tuning is simply the single best bang for the buck - if that makes sense.

The difference between Hypertech and Superchips is considerable - Hypertech is "generic," meaning there just the same program for all 1998 4.6 F-0150's, for example - they don't tune each vehicle individually according to it's exact PCM revision like Superchips does - in the Superchips Micro Tuner there are almost 4000 different programs, because these F-150's have literally *hundreds* of different PCM revisions each model year alone - and Superchips makes a different performance program to match each and every single one, so that each vehicle gets the best possible tune - Hypertech doesn't, which is why you can get a result with the Hypertech unit ranging anywhere from at best in our experience, a 12 HP gain, to at worst, actually losing a little power. Also, Hypertech does not tune for more power anywhere except full-throttle only - to be technically accurate, only at roughly 82% throttle opening or greater (open loop operation), and they do that because it's much easier & cheaper. There are no emissions standards that have to be met during full-throttle operation - something most people are not aware of.

The Superchips tuning is full-range, so you have more power *all* the time, not just at full-throttle - you have more power all the time at any throttle position, as well as at any rpm. Also, Hypertech generally requires the use of abnormally cold thermostats, where the Superchips tuning does not - we recommend using your stock thermostat rating, as gasoline engines generally makes their best power with the coolant in the 200-210 degree range. This is why NASCAR race cars have their cooling systems designed to provide those kinds of temperatures (when they're not in heavy traffic), as that is where they make the best power.

The bottom line is that the Superchips tuning provides the best optimization of the powertrain program, higher power gains, more consistent power gains and a noticeably better improvement in overall driveability. That's why we use them - if Hypertech did a better job, we'd be using & selling their products instead, as we don't care about the name on the box - it's the results that count.

There is plenty of material here in this section you can read thru about this, & please feel free to give us a call if you'd like to go over this in more detail - we'll be happy to help, and you'll get our best pricing on Superchips products when you call us by phone.

In the meantime, & we hope you'll hang out here with us in your spare time, & best of luck whatever you decide!
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2003, 08:10 PM
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Since I do have the Hypertech tuner, I can say the 87 octane tuning has worked very well. It does shift firmer/quicker than stock, and the 87 octane tuning was noticable to my surprise. I ran a Hypertech chip in a '95 F150 and wasn't pleased with it. I ran 94 octane fuel and couldn't notice any difference whatsoever.
The truck had a 5.8L/4sp aoto, 31/10.5-15 rubber, headers, dynomax exhaust, cam, tb, 4.56 gears, open K&N intake, hi-flow cat, Superlift traction bars. It moved very well. The Hypertech stumbled on idle, and ran very wierd at low rpm. Throttle mashed, I couldn't tell a difference compared to running 87 octane and no chip.
I prefer running Superchip but since one was not available I tried the Hypertech tuner, and it works great.

I don't agree with Mike's comment (no offense, eh!) on the Hypertech only produces power at 82% throttle and higher, since the tuner I'm using has increased power across the board. This I can tell since it picks up speed quicker, running in OD from 1,500rpm on up.
A steep hill 40 miles out of town 8 degree grade, my truck before the tuner, running 65mph with cruise set in OD, would lose speed and downshift about 7 seconds into the hill. Now, same speed, with 87 tuning, will run almost 15 seconds before downshifting, using less throttle until the 1/2 point up the hill. By the time it's hit a 82% throttle position it's already downshifted.
It's ability to hold hills, and pick up speed is noticable, and does this no where near 82% throttle. The snappier response makes it a much more enjoyable truck to drive.

Hypertech is not alone as far as "generic" tuning goes, Superchip is guilty of the same. The Superchip tuner covers an even larger variety of engines/trannys/model years than Hypertech is. My tuner is tuned for '02-'03 5.4L trucks/suv's. Superchip's #1715 covers Ford V8 & V10 Powered Gas Trucks, Vans & SUVs, 1996-2003. The same tuner can tune a '96 5.0L Bronco, or a 7.5L F350, or a '01 v-10. I don't see anything here focused on tuning for each individual vehicle here. You could say Superchip's new tuner is even more "generic" than Hypertech's.

NOTE- I would be running a Superchip programmer if one was readily available. I would still prefer one, but the great results I've had with this tuner may make it a bit more difficult which tuner next time I'll buy.
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Working on a Foose F150 too.....

Last edited by hoseclamp; 11-03-2003 at 08:40 PM.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2003, 09:47 AM
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Check out www.hypertech.com

They also state they tune throughout the engine's powerband, not just a mashed throttle.
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2008 Screw KR, black/tan, 285/55-20 BFG AT's, Magnalow cat-back, Hypertech tuner and butchered AFE intake shelved, waiting for Troyer custom tunes and AF1 3.5" intake.....

Working on a Foose F150 too.....
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2003, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
My tuner is tuned for '02-'03 5.4L trucks/suv's. Superchip's #1715 covers Ford V8 & V10 Powered Gas Trucks, Vans & SUVs, 1996-2003. The same tuner can tune a '96 5.0L Bronco, or a 7.5L F350, or a '01 v-10.
The Superchip tuner may _support_ all these models, but the tuning it does is different for each particular computer variation (Based on the PCM code).

The Hypertech uses the same tuning (program) for a variety of different computers in the same model range. In other words, the Hypertech uses the same program for an 02 5.4L F150 no matter what PCM code it has.

(I know nothing about any of these tuners but this is what I have inferred from what Mike has posted).

-Don
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  #7  
Old 11-04-2003, 10:48 AM
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Your 'puter code is not needed when purchasing the Superchip tuner, therefore it is not tuning specifically to your vehicle. It's working on a broad "generic" span of tuning, much like Hypertech.
The chip my wife's '99 Taurus needed the code, it was a simple "piggy-back" style, it was tuned for the car, and worked great.
With the tuners in question, no code need for purchase, only the model year/engine to match which tuner is required.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2003, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Your 'puter code is not needed when purchasing the Superchip tuner, therefore it is not tuning specifically to your vehicle.
This is specious reasoning.

That you do not need to specify your computer code at time of purchase does not mean that the tuner itself isn't aware of the differences. The tuner is pre-programmed for all the computer variations. When it is connected to the car, it reads the computer code and installs the appropriate program for that computer.

The HyperTech programmer reads the computer code and installs the appropriate program as well. The difference appears to be (and I base this only on what I have read in Mike's postings) that the SuperChips programs are specifically tuned for each PCM, as opposed to a single tune that _works with_ each PCM.

-Don
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2003, 05:07 PM
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The multi-tuners in question can work on several different applications, without specifying what code is on the pcm. If the code is not needed to run the chip, then the programming is a "one for all" within the model year/engine combos specified.
The only chip that Superchip had available for my wife's Taurus, was a #1100 chip, or it was a #1200, don't remember. To run one of thier chips, Superchip needed the PCM code from the car. With that, they tuned the vehicle accordingly, and the chip was tuned specifically for my wife's car. It would not run in any other vehicle, unless for some reason there was another '99 Taurus 24v with the same code.
The programmers in question are not tuned in the same manner. If they were then Superchip would require your vehicle's PCM code when you purchased the tuner, or it would not work at all in your vehicle.
If a tuner can work in any Ford suv, van, truck over a 7 year span, with 12 different engine/transmission combinations, with no relayed information back to the chip producer on what PCM code is in the vehicle, it is anything but specific.
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2008 Screw KR, black/tan, 285/55-20 BFG AT's, Magnalow cat-back, Hypertech tuner and butchered AFE intake shelved, waiting for Troyer custom tunes and AF1 3.5" intake.....

Working on a Foose F150 too.....

Last edited by hoseclamp; 11-04-2003 at 05:10 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2003, 07:39 PM
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Hi Hoseclamp,

Your claim that because the Micro Tuner doesn't require you to give us your computer code means that it's generic tuning instead of being exactly what you were told by me - which is individual vehicle specific tuning that is exactly matched to each individual vehicle's exact PCM software revision - is dead wrong, just as with some other claims in your posts of late.

The truth is the 1715 Micro Tuner contains almost 4000 different programs - several different tunes for every different factory PCM software revision, so that each vehicle does in fact get *ONLY* a code-matched performance tune from the Micro Tuner - and that is true whether it's via the Micro Tuner or a traditional Superchip module - period.

*ALL* "MAX" series Micro Tuners read the vehicle's PCM software program (not just it's VIN) and then do an internal lookup to find the correct code-matched performance tune for that *individual* vehicle's exact PCM software revision - only *then* will it allow a program upload - this is the Superchips "MAX" technology (and is why they are called the "MAX" series of Micro Tuners) and has never been done before in the industry. If the Micro Tuner does *not* have the exact code-matched program to exactly match the original factory software, then it tells you on it's screen that it needs an update, and to call Superchips. Furthermore, in that case it will store a *copy* of the original factory software revision in the Micro Tuner so it can be sent in for a quick & easy update - and *ALL* of it is in fact individual vehicle code-specific.

With Superchips you get a program that was in fact made for that specific individual vehicle, that exactly matches the PCM revision it came with from the factory - as I told you before, Ford has literally *hundreds* of different PCM revisions every single model year in the F-150, that's why the Micro Tuner contains almost 4000 programs.

The Superchips tuning is *ALWAYS* individual vehicle code-specific, whether it's in a traditional Superchip module or via the MAX Micro Tuners. Every time Ford makes a different PCM software revision, Superchips tunes that vehicle based on *that* individual software revision - this is why most people, and those who know the difference, use the Superchips tuning - just like you - the 1715 Superchips Micro Tuner is what you actually wanted, but didn't get because of your vendor giving you a story about the current generation Micro Tuner not being available, which is how they justified sending you a 9 month old previous generation unit, according to your posts.

The fact is, Superchips is the *only* chipmaker that tunes each vehicle individually according to it's exact PCM revision, that tunes for maximum power all the time, at *any* throttle position and not just at any rpm, and that is also 50-state emissions approved - no other chipmaker is doing all of that, few even know how to hack & reverse engineer thru that much hex code to find the appropriate tables, and it's very expensive to do - but that is required to get the best results.

My purpose is not to point out every mistaken claim you have made in your recent posts - we both have better things to do with our time, and you are already being made aware of some of this by other people here who have also been trying to help you.

Remember, nobody else cares what you have, the only thing that matters is you being happy - as as long as you're happy with what happened with that vendor & the product you ended up with instead of what you ordered, then we're happy for you & hope you enjoy your unit for years to come - *that* is what matters, you being happy.

Good luck & have fun,
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ASK US about our POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT SUPERCHARGERS for your 2004 & up F-150!
See our Troyer Performance Roush Project Truck in the second article down from the top at this link:http://www.roushperfmarketing.com/ne...ter_200701.htm
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2003, 08:42 PM
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Well thanks for clarifying the tuner programming for me Mike. I had thought "Specific tuning must mean there's thousands of programs for each individual PCM in the Microtuner. Impossible, there's no room!"
There you go, those little bits of silicon must hold more than I thought.
I could of asked how exactly the tuners could be pcm specific when it isn't required at purchased, but honestly, I thought your comparisons between the two tuners was more sales-driven than on the level, since I did not know the finer details of Superchips' tuner programming.
I apologize for my assumption, and appreciate the clarification.
I hope the sand I dumped in the vaseline won't limit your interaction over any future q's I may have.

Once again, my apologies.

Hoseclamp.
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2008 Screw KR, black/tan, 285/55-20 BFG AT's, Magnalow cat-back, Hypertech tuner and butchered AFE intake shelved, waiting for Troyer custom tunes and AF1 3.5" intake.....

Working on a Foose F150 too.....

Last edited by hoseclamp; 11-05-2003 at 01:06 AM.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2003, 09:25 PM
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Don't have numbers to prove it but, the Superchips tuner is the way to go if you have a choice. I've had Hypertech programmer on two Fords. Never felt that much difference in performance, thought i'd try Superchips and am glad i did. Seat of the pants and the way the truck shifts, i can tell a big difference. Superchips is the way to go....plus you get a code reader too!
L8r
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2003, 12:22 AM
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Mike,

Thank your for clarifying what I was trying to say

The HyperTech programmer reads the Vehicles VIN and installs a program that will work with that computer. The SuperChips programmer reads the PCM (not just the VIN) and installs a far more specific program.

-Don
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Old 11-05-2003, 05:31 PM
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Hi Hoseclamp,

Thanks very much for your post, that's very kind of you, and please forgive me if I came off a bit "brusk," perhaps. Please don't give it a thought, you & I are fine and of course I'm happy to help you any way I can - it's a privilege.

You've been a gentleman here, doing your research, asking good questions in getting prepared for your modifications, etc., and you have also been trying to help other members here as well - which is what F-150 Online is all about - the exchange of relevant information. I think it's obvious your efforts here are well-intentioned, & you seem to be enjoying the site and participating here on F-150 Online just as we hope people will - excellent!

You make a valid point I'd like to touch on, which is, I think it's human nature (especially here in America) to have a certain amount of skepticism when dealing with someone promoting a certain product - unfortunately, the natural assumption is the vendor may be willing to say whatever they think will hopefully result in making a sale no matter what - you're absolutely right, that happens far too often. In fact, I think it's become virtually ingrained in our society, especially with the advent of the web portion of the Internet, it seems to get stuffed down our throats. Perhaps even most companies operate that way these days, but we don't, believe it or not.

Don't get me wrong, we're not angels, and of course we're trying to sell products and make some kind of profit - you bet! Otherwise, we can't support this web site financially as we have for 5+ years, and eventually we'd go out of business if we didn't sell anything, and then we couldn't help anyone - that scenario serves nobody. But I think we can fairly and honestly say that we do make every reasonable effort we can to actually *know* the various products and have heavy in-depth & hands-on experience with them, testing as much as we possibly can, etc., so that we *know* just which products are really doing the best job, and hopefully even the *why* behind it - actually, this is critical to us, as that is how we decide which products we carry.

We don't carry 15 different types of intake kits, or every different chipmaker, or every different exhaust, or pulley or what have you etc., as we feel that actually serves *nobody*. I know, that sounds strange........what *does* serve people the best, at least we feel, is for us to do the testing, both formal and informal, that is required to determine which parts and/or manufacturers are doing the best job for a given application at hand, whether that means it mas the most power, or gives the best ride, or the best improvement in ET or towing, etc., etc. - and then *that* is what we carry. Even at that, we have to specialize in vehicle platforms, which is why we basically do only America trucks & SUV's (with the occasional Mustang, Camaro or Corvette or T'bird thrown in), with heavy emphasis on these FoMoCo Trucks & SUV's - no matter who you are, you can only be really good at so many things, or on so many platforms, etc.

What we try to do is carry 2 basic "types" of products - the very best regardless of cost, and then also whatever is the best bang for the buck solution - sometimes that is the same product, and sometimes it's completely different. So our approach is perhaps a bit different than what many people may be used to, thus we have to remind ourselves from time to time that it's natural for some people to perhaps not understand us fully or to have doubts, or maybe even question the objectivity, etc. when dealing with a vendor - it's all part of the process these days, I suppose!

Actually, your situation with that previous-generation Tuner you got originally had (and still does, truth be told) me slightly miffed *for* you, as I don't like what you were told about availability on the new 1715 and the fact that you didn't get what you actually ordered - as we discussed before - and of course by now, that really doesn't matter anymore as your vendor worked with you to provide you with a solution that made you happy - and that's all that really matters!

Thanks for your posts (this last one in particular, that was *very* gracious of you), and for your participation here!

Best of luck with your truck hoseclamp, & talk to you soon!
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Email: Sales@TroyerPerformance.com
National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
ASK US about our POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT SUPERCHARGERS for your 2004 & up F-150!
See our Troyer Performance Roush Project Truck in the second article down from the top at this link:http://www.roushperfmarketing.com/ne...ter_200701.htm
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  #15  
Old 11-06-2003, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Superchips_Distributor
Hi Hoseclamp,


...You've been a gentleman here, doing your research...
Heheh, I think I should of done a weee bit more research before sticking my foot in my mouth and the other in my butt.

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2008 Screw KR, black/tan, 285/55-20 BFG AT's, Magnalow cat-back, Hypertech tuner and butchered AFE intake shelved, waiting for Troyer custom tunes and AF1 3.5" intake.....

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Old 11-06-2003, 11:30 PM


 
 
 
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