Ford/GM/Chrysler/MB/Porsche all have service directives that specifically refer to paint correction/contamination procedures and clay bar is not a referred procedure and specifically identified as a method which only removes the surface level paint contaminants and as such, the "root' of the contaminant remains continues to destroy the paint from underneath the surface layer of the paint.

The question to ask yourself is this "Do I need to wet-sand my paint to correct the problem"? 99% of the time the answer is no.

Just remember, Mequire's clay bar is rated at 3500 grit, even with the a lubricant there is still paint removal occuring. Think about it this way:

1. OEM paint finishes have between 3.5 to 8 mil total paint thickness
2. The thicker the paint, the greater logetivity and depth/quality of shine
3. OEM paints typically are designed to last about 7-10 years
4. If the clear coat is reduced to less than 3 mil, the shine of the paint degrades quickly and in most cases cannot be restored.
5. If you determine you must wet sand/clay bar your paint there much better clay bar products out there rated at much finer grits- (typically 5000 or finer) and can be found at numerous professional detail & auto paint suppliers sites such as Pro Car Care Beauty Products, etc.

Most paint contamination issues can be corrected with products designed to relieve, remove and neutralize the contaminants without reducing the mil thickness of the clear coat. These products include:

"Fallout Remover" (industrial contamination- ex. jet fuel residue, iron/sulpher contaminents, smog contamiments)

"Denatured Alcohol" (removing petroleum based contaminents, wax, etc.)

These procedures date back to 1990 and are still published in current oem paint maintenance publications/service manuals.



Results of actual detailing. Last week I detailed my wifes car. We ordered it new, it is a 1997 Cougar Sport, with the exception of the front bumper which was repainted and the passenger/right side rear trunk lid that was recently scratched 12" long down to bare metal (postal carrier man fell & the brass buckel dug into the paint) which I repainted (yes it's color matched), all of the remaining paint if 100% OEM BC/CC laytex.

The car is a daily driver, exposed to desert heat (5 years) and indsutrial fallout (as we live within 8 miles of Los Angeles International Airport). A clay bar has never touched the paint. I use fallout remover, denatured alcohol, hand glaze, paint polish, sealer & carnuba wax (only as need for each issue).







Yes, the wheel covers I made myself and you are right- there is no orange peel on the paint- I used a (very old) technique when the car was a few weeks old to shrink the paint that reduces orange peel to almost "nothing" without color sanding- basically washing the car in an ice-water bath for 30 minutes (temp must be around 40 degrees F).

Unfortunitely the pics do not do the car justice as we only have an old 4 megapixel camera.

Posted this just to demonstrate it can be done!

 

Your credibility is shot!

 

Beechkid

Your photos aren't showing. I know you I as well as many elders here have gone head to head on the whole clay thing several times over the past year.

Can you give link for "fall out remover"?

How about the links to the products you are using? Often times, posts like this can be taken the wrong way without product information.

What products are you using to remove rail dust? Give us some details as to your techniques, products, machines used, pads, speeds etc. These are much more helpful over the drive by post that is a tad vague in the details. (Pardon the puns)



Give some info to look at and digest.

 

Here we go again.....

3500 grit.... service manuals from 10 years ago... clay removing mils... on and on and on....

Nothing new to see here... move on....

So many incorrect statements... who can count.

 

I remember getting a fax from you with the service directions... from 1994 and posted them on here.. I will dig them up again.
Sean

Here it is:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/ca...nfo-plz-3.html

and what beechkid faxed to me...

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing. Just want to see the links to the products used.

It would be more helpful to know more details.

Not trying to start a war...

 

Great here we go again.

If only you would listen to what i've been trying to tell you..

 

From a purely technical standpoint, any time you even touch or rub your paint with anything, you're removing something. True, we might be talking at a micorscopic level, but any friction will remove something. That said, is anybody removing anything significant when they clay? In most cases no. In some cases, yes. Like many things in life, technique is critical. Hell, I've seen people totally butcher a car's finish with a can of Turtle Wax - incorrectly applied.

So I wouldn't get all wound up about whether or not claying a car's finish does any harm or not. What I might suggest is that if folks really do care about the finish on their car or truck, they need to talk to somebody with lots of experience. Oh yea, and if all that experience came from 20 years ago, it's totally worthless on today's finishes.

Hint for the day: Web sites like The Detailer's Cafe are great places to find great advice based on experience.

 

Were up to our old tricks again I see.

Where do you come up with this stuff? For one Megs makes more than one detailing clay, none of which are 3500 grit. You've obviously have never used their products or you wouldn't be spewing this garbage.

Lots of vehicles out their 7 -10 years old, still with very nice original paint.

Give it a rest......

 

The part that confuses me is how the list quoted as the source says 7 to 10 years, and the example of why not to clay is a 13 year old paint job

Guess at least item #3 in that list is in question

 

I stand by my post.

It would be really helpful if Beechkid would list some specifics of the products used.

Products today are VERY advanced. Just interested in what he uses.

Cheers

RollingRock
A Shameless student of 2Stroked.

 

I believe he uses the standard assortment of 3M pro products that old time body guys and detailers have been using for ages.

 

Found a few chemical cleaners just wondering which one he is using. couldn't find a 3M version.

 

I needed a good laugh tonight.

 

Gip you feeling any better yet?


Maybe this thread helped you heal.