2004 - 2008 F-150

P0012, Different than most???

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 09-09-2015, 09:00 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
P0012, Different than most???

First off, 2005 Lariat with the 5.4L and 175000 miles.
So here we go, I've had what I believed to be the phaser noise since I've owned the vehicle in 08. No loss of power, many long distant road trips, no issues and never had a CEL the entire time. Plugs and COPS were replaced last year after I developed the 45-55 hesitation/jerking upshift issue and that corrected the problem. Still never a CEL.
Now lets jump to last week, left the house and got about a mile down the road and my Oil Pressure drops to below L, truck starts to stutter and I pull over. No loud metal to metal noise and no CEL. Restart it, pressure goes up and I get it back home.
Let it sit for a little while, then go back out and start it up. This time it sounds rougher than normal and my Oil Pressure drops to L at Idle after a few minutes. After this going on I tried the VCT solenoids first....sounded a lot better but still had the Oil Pressure drop (NO CEL). Towed it to my mechanic and had him drop the pan, check for sludge, any pieces and remove the freaking FRAM oil filter. He said there was sludge in their and cleaned things out.
PIck up the vehicle and it runs great, no hesitation, no low oil pressure and even quiter than it has been since I got it BUT the next morning I got the infamous P0012 code and the CEL light. No other codes, only the P0012. If I do clear the code it comes back after a couple of starts.
So far I have switched the VCTs and CPS to the other sides and the code doesn't change. I haven't had any crazy idle or anything yet. I think it sounds and runs better than it did before but I never got a code/CEL until the issue and oil change.

Can anyone suggest anything else to check/do before tearing into the engine?

1. More sludge stilll floating around in engine? Was the sludge allowing for more pressure like a higher viscosity oil would be.
2. Could it have jumped time when I first had the issue and the CEL never popped because I didn't drive it, only idled? ANy way to check without tearing the front cover off?
3. Suspecting Oil Pump and Phasers but it's running great so far.
4. Anyone in Georgia thats done the phasers, chains, etc.... and wants to trade some Custom Paint/Airbrushing for Labor. My FB page is EagleEye.artwork if interested.

Thanks all, IF I get this figured out I will post the outcome. While searching I see a lot of folks never come back on and give answers/solutions.
 
  #2  
Old 09-10-2015, 12:12 AM
Lewissa81's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What brand of VCT solenoids did you use? I've heard several people who bought Dormans, and had them fail immediately. It seems that Motorcraft is the best. They have been revised several times, so there are better ones than the originals.
You could swap the solenoids. While doing so, make sure the screens are clear and haven't been blocked by any sludge or debris that was loosened.
The oil pressure guage in these trucks are really just dummy guages. As long as you have more than 7psi, it will read in the middle. This means you don't really know what the oil pressure is. The VCT solenoids need 25 psi (I think) to operate, so if you less than that, the VCT solenoids can malfunction. It may be worth while to either install an actual oil pressure guage, or have your mechanic test it.
 
  #3  
Old 09-10-2015, 12:47 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the quick response.

I did switch the Solenoids around but it did not change anything. I also have 1 Dorman, I believe, and 1 MC from Ford (Ford only had 1 at the time). Funny thing is I got the 1 from Ford for $65 and the Advanced one cost $120. Goes to show Ford knows they are a problem since they are 1/2 the price of the others, I think that's the only time I've seen it like that. Just weird on the time when the CEL came on...after pan removal and Oil/filter Change. Runs Great and idles smooth....for now.

Next thing looks like I have to do is get an actual pressure gauge on and check pressures.
 
  #4  
Old 09-10-2015, 01:44 PM
Lewissa81's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I guess I missed the part where you swapped the solenoids, my bad. I wonder if on of the screens came off the old solenoid on that bank, and is clogging an oil port. Just a thought.
 
  #5  
Old 09-10-2015, 04:44 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The screens were actually still intact on both Solenoids. One other thing I noticed today is it appears to pop the CEL after it has been in Reverse (like backing out of driveway) and then placing it in Drive if that makes since to any of the 5.4 Gurus.
 
  #6  
Old 09-10-2015, 05:11 PM
Lewissa81's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have heard people say that when their phasers are at the end of their life, the engine acts up and knocks more after reversing. I can't speak from experience, because I replaced all my timing components two weeks after they first started making noise. That was at 190k miles.
You could have a leaking tensioner that is reducing oil pressure. Are your phasers noisy? It may just be time to open up the front and do the complete job.
 
  #7  
Old 09-13-2015, 01:37 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Alright,
I was able to finally get gauge and install them. Here's what I get
First start and idle reads about 55 steady, no fluctuating.
By the time it gets to operating temp its reading about 20-25 psi.
It does drop about 5 psi when going into drive and reverse, I'm guessing this drop is normal, but that put me a little below 20.
Giving it throttle (in neutral) brings me back up to the 50-60 mark
No real crazy noise, just the normal phaser noise it's always had. Even fainter now that the VCTs were replaced.
I'm thinking it could be bleeding off from the Tensioner like others, I'm just wanting to be a little more positive before dropping money. I've seen a lot of threads on this p0012 and some have replaced evrything up front but it returns. I also did pop a p0021 yesterday while driving around along with the p0012. 2 separate banks

Any suggestions
 
  #8  
Old 09-13-2015, 02:00 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Alright, just confirmed.
Cleared codes
Operating temp, about 20 psi
Gave it a couple of starts then
Put in in reverse about 10 feet, PSI intially drops to about 18
When I went back into drive the psi dropped further and CEL light came on but psi went back up to about 20-22 psi at hot idle
 
  #9  
Old 09-13-2015, 04:01 PM
Lewissa81's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It sounds to me that it's time to take care of the timing system. I recommend using only Motorcraft parts. Some people have had good results with aftermarket, like Cloyes, but definitely do not use Dorman. There have been to many instances of early/immediate failure with Dorman.
That's just my opinion though. Hopefully a seasoned professional will chime in.
 
  #10  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:17 PM
KwitcherBitchin's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hinesville, GA
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks bud, kinda figured that. Gotta save some money up first
 



Quick Reply: P0012, Different than most???



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:55 PM.