My fiance bought me some 4.56 motive gears for my Saleen. What else will I need to get these installed? Truck has 3600 miles on it. Already have Troyer Stage I performance kit, so I can change the gear ratio in the tune.
What will I need for the actual install?
Before any comments are made....yes, i am aware that some of you all hate motive gears and some swear by them.
Are you going to attempt the install yourself? You need the tools to set the pinion depth and a dial indicator to set the backlash. You can have your pinion bearning pressed off or you can purchase a new one. You probably should get an install kit with the shims need to properly set the ring and pinion. Ford uses these big cast iron shims to position the differential and it's unlikely the same shims will give you the necessary backlash. With the shim kit, you can get the adjustment, but you will need a thinner shim on one side (maybe both) to accomplish it. If you've never done this before, get prices for someone to do the install for you.
Gears are about the only thing I will not touch. SOmeone else is doing it. I JUST got an email from him. He says I will need a shim kit, crush washer, and new pinion bearing. (and fluid).
just buy a master install it, its about 100 bucks for one. you can call Rons machining Services, i deal with Ron on all my gears i have bought and he always has everything i need and gets it to me very fast.
1800 694 3098
Tell him Matt from Chicago sent you. i dont know if it will help ya any but its worth a shot.
__________________
ROLLING ON 40's~~Airbags on there way!
I did my motive gears myself and have been trouble free for 40k miles! dont reuse the pinion bearing. i think the master install kits have them, or if not you can get one from autozone i believe. I had trouble with measuring the backlash, so i just used the sock shims and crossed my fingers. I checked the contact pattern and it looked fine so i said screw it and put it back together. i didnt have an inch/lbs torque wrench at the time, so setting the preload/ crush sleeve was tricky but it seemed to work out ok.
Are you guys kidding? Why can't you reuse a pinion bearing with 3600 miles on it?
Are you sure the guy who responded didn't say a new pinion nut? The nut it not supposed to be reused. I've only ever reused them when only replacing the pinion seal.
I wouldn't replace a single bearing if I had it done at Ford (with 3600 miles that is). They use a totally different method for figuring pinion depth. All you need then is a crush sleeve, pinion nut, ring bolts, and both shim kits. Its generally called a minimum install kit.
Now if I were doing it myself, I would eat the cost of a master install kit because I would shave a hair from inside of the old pinion and carrier bearings and use them for mock-up.
Smok][n, you didn't reshim or use a torque wrench?!?! Its just impossible that you have a good pattern. I bet you just can't hear them whine over your other mods. Can you touch the diff after driving a few miles or is it really hot?
I forgot the pinion seal in my above list. For whatever reason the pinion nut is not included in the minimum install kit. I would buy one from the seller separately. You could reuse it with thread-locker but they are a one-time use self-locking design so I would get a new one with thread locker already on it.
Before you buy any install kit, figure out who is doing the install. Anyone who knows what they're doing will tell you what they need (and it better be either a minimum install kit + pinion nut or a master install kit).
And for whoever recommended to replace the pinion bearing, you didn't mention which one! You know there are two of them, right? The inner isn't any more or less important than the outer.
Are you guys kidding? Why can't you reuse a pinion bearing with 3600 miles on it?
Are you sure the guy who responded didn't say a new pinion nut? The nut it not supposed to be reused. I've only ever reused them when only replacing the pinion seal.
I wouldn't replace a single bearing if I had it done at Ford (with 3600 miles that is). They use a totally different method for figuring pinion depth. All you need then is a crush sleeve, pinion nut, ring bolts, and both shim kits. Its generally called a minimum install kit.
Now if I were doing it myself, I would eat the cost of a master install kit because I would shave a hair from inside of the old pinion and carrier bearings and use them for mock-up.
Smok][n, you didn't reshim or use a torque wrench?!?! Its just impossible that you have a good pattern. I bet you just can't hear them whine over your other mods. Can you touch the diff after driving a few miles or is it really hot?
the pinion bearing is the one you have to press off the shaft of the pinion correct? i didnt have the proper tool to get it off without damaging it, so i replaced it. but even so, i wouldnt want to reuse something that had to be pressed off. not for $30...
and i checked the contact pattern twice with the marking compound and it came out exactly like the top left pic in this diagram.
if it had been off, i would have had to adjust the shims, but it was fine. and there is absolutely no whining, chattering or grinding at all.
i did use a torque wrench for every step of the install that required it. i just didnt have an INCH lbs torque wrench required to set the crush sleeve, so i guessed using the foot lbs wrench at its lowest setting.
I dont want to act like a pro who knows what they are doing, and i know that i got lucky in having no trouble, but like i said, over 50,000+ miles and trouble free, i think that it turned out pretty good
There are two pinion bearings. Both got pressed off. Even if you did the outer with a hammer, it was still pressed off. So if you only replaced the inner because you didn't have a 5" bearing remover, but reused the outer because its pressed on via the pinion nut...
How did you check your pattern? What did you use to rotate the gears?
When you say you used a ft-lb torque wrench, you understand this has to be performed with a "beam-type" torque wrench, yes? Its not the "click-type". You're not measuring the tightness of the nut. You're measuring the tightness of the pinion rotation. How "tight" the bearing is squeezed against the case in essence. They call it bearing preload. There is no way to measure this with a regular clicker torque wrench.
In fact, the pinion nut is tightened to 250-300 ft-lbs before the bearing preload even begins to move from 0. And then it often moves from 0 to 15 in-lbs (or whatever is appropriate) within a quarter turn of the nut. Once the crush sleeve begins to crush the correct preload is achieved so quickly many first timers need to do it again with a second crush sleeve.
I really do hope your gears are fine. But I tend to think you will be doing it again within the next 25K miles. Your bearing preloads, what makes them last a long time, shouldn't be right even if the pattern is.
My only problem is that while you do say you're no expert, you're advocating a methodology which is totally wrong. That gives hope to others where there shouldn't be any. You got lucky, maybe. But it doesn't mean anyone else will win the lottery. And what you're suggesting is possibly dangerous. Improperly setup gears could go bad on the highway and cause a loss of vehicle control. So better to give people the right details than to give them false hope.
EDIT: There is also nothing wrong with pressing the bearing off and on the pinion a dozen times. Thats generally how the home mechanic figures out the right shim settings. The right tools are required though like you said.
i honestly dont remember how i turned the gears, this was probably 2 years ago, but i did. and to be honest i dont remember all the steps i followed in setting the preload, but im sure they werent the correct ones. i dont believe that it is necessary to explain my poor installation techniques because you cant believe that it happened to work out ok. all i can say is that the motive gears i used were called "stock replacements" and maybe were machined close enough to stock to not require shim adjustments. or again maybe it was just a lucky fluke.
i hope i dont have trouble down the road, but i might. oh well, im prepared for that. i knew that i was taking a chance when i was installing them, and that i might have to immediately turn around and pay a shop to do them, but that hasnt happened yet.
but lets get something straight, i have in no way recommended that someone do what i did. i simply stated what i did and STRESSED that i knew that i was "lucky", and by stating that i wasnt an expert, i believe its safe to say that i wasnt "advocating" anything, and that one should not look to me for advice in this matter. i didnt say "o yeah this is the way to do it". the original poster asked what else is required, and someone replied a master install kit. if im not mistaken, a master kit includes a new pinion bearing. if there is absolutely no need for a new one, then why would it be put in there? and why would his mechanic tell him to get a new one? its for the peace of mind of the owner that certain parts inside are new. im not saying you cant reuse one, but it doesnt mean that its a bad idea to replace one.
i hear alot of stories about people getting regeared and coming back with whiney and improperly installed gears. if these pros sometimes have trouble setting up gears, what makes you think they cant damage the pinion bearing getting it off? its just one less thing to worry about.
i dont normally post like this, but i get a little defensive if someone criticizes my work on my vehicle when i have no problems with it. also when i get accused of advocating poor workmanship when all i suggested was that a new pinion bearing be used...
but to cover my own a$$, "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS"
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
![Send a message via MSN to Smok][n](http://www.f150online.com/forums/images/misc/im_msn.gif)
Linear Mode
